Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

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Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Cariddis » Wed 11 Jan, 2012 22:47

Hi guys. I have a doubt: Is it better to field 5 Glade Riders or 5 Wild Riders? Both with musician, they are going to cost the same. The formers have bows, the latter can add small melee support and are a little more resilient. Both could act as a distraction. Any ideas?
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby taru » Wed 11 Jan, 2012 23:00

imo wild riders because of ward save and you can guaruntee they will kill chaff with glade riders at 15-17 pts i might change change my mind :eek:
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby thedevilchild » Wed 11 Jan, 2012 23:02

glade riders are over priced for what they are, and the wild riders are not very survivable for the WE's heaviest cav. Glade riders have bows, which is an advantage. There are so few of them though, that their shooting wont do much. The wild riders are pretty heard hitting for a fast cav unit. They both have major drawback, but I would go for the Wild Riders. A lot of the choice depends on the rest of your army though. If you need a hammer for the hammer and anvil, then wild riders are great. If you are running a melee averse army, then Glade Riders would be much better.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Cariddis » Wed 11 Jan, 2012 23:06

Thank you very much for your comments. I think I'll choose WR, since they are tougher and they will worry the enemy more. I'll use them as a magnet for shooting, backup anti-warmachine unit, march-preventing unit, occasional melee support and to mine my opponent's sanity ;)
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby OneShotOneKill » Thu 12 Jan, 2012 00:08

I have become a big fan of Wild Riders. They smoke any other chaff units and are the toughest fast cav around. The big drawback im my opinion is an inability to flee. That being said I dont remember any games in recent memory that they havent gotten their points back. ITP means they arent running, and even if there are only one or two, it is still plenty to beat warmanchine.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Cariddis » Thu 12 Jan, 2012 00:49

OneShotOneKill wrote:The big drawback im my opinion is an inability to flee.

That's a worrying thing, since if a strong enemy charges them they'll be doomed. But then I thought that their movement value is 9, so there should be no problem at keeping them at safe distance, don't you think?
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby taru » Thu 12 Jan, 2012 07:58

18 inch march if you put them in charge range of something decent is your problem you lose them. Cant charge put also how i see it cant panic and cant become victim to fear or terror i like the fact they are itp, it means they garauntee unless all dead they get to where they are meant to and take out that chaff or w/m or shooties.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Cariddis » Thu 12 Jan, 2012 09:12

If I lose them thant won't be a problem since they're expendables. I would use them to chase lone wizards, fast cavalry and other weak targets
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Yuri » Thu 12 Jan, 2012 14:00

Cariddis wrote:If I lose them thant won't be a problem since they're expendables. I would use them to chase lone wizards, fast cavalry and other weak targets

I'm afraid there's no such a thing anymore. Problem is people rely on Wild Riders like they are heavy cavalry. Well, they aren't. They are light cavalry with 5/6+ ward and ItP, and you should use them like that. So, their purpose is to hunt some warmachines and fleeing units, not to confront RnF units and feed opponent's CRs.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Cariddis » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 03:07

But isn't a Fast Cavalry task that of chasing other Fast Cavalry or lone level 1-2 magicians? If not them, who otherwise would do it in a Wood Elves army?
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Kulgan86 » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 08:44

The problem is those other fast cavalry your describe are or clearly superior ( when compared to Glade Riders ) and will win any fair numberd match up ( Dark Elf / High Elf fast cavalry ) or are so much cheaper ( Goblin Wolf Riders, Brettonian fast cavalry ) that you are likeley to encounter two units against your one unit, making your unit the sore looser.

Also : not every army has to forfill every ' task ' . If you try to do everything, you will fail at the things that are not strong points. While you are correct it's the task of fast cavalry to deal with other fast cavalry and lone wizards, we simply do not posses the means to see this through. Glade Riders are too weak, and Wild Riders don't really qualify as fast cavalry, since they can not flee. They're more like very mobile medium shock cavalry.

As for effectiveley dealing with fast cavalry : Glade Guard shoot them to bits on turn 1, end of story. As for Lone wizards, you can always try and shoot them with Glade Guard. If they fail their look out roll ( is it 4+ if you're outside of a unit but within 6"? ) they'll also quickly disposed off.

And finally Eagles can do both jobs, if it's the right situation. I hardly use them for this because there's so much things they are better at.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Eglardion » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 09:44

If you need just distraction take glade riders. They can set up traps by fleeing.

Wild riders on the other hand can do quite much if used properly. They are not empire knights so don't expose them to misslie fire or brutal amount of CC attacks. Though they do not have the armour of empire knights they are much faster and hit a bit harder (ws 5, fury of kurnous). Use this to your advantage. If you flank your opponent he will have fewer models to strike back at you. A unit of 5 won't do much damage, but you could flank small knight units, missile units and warmachines. You can even charge into monsters that have only a few wounds left. You will most likely strike before the monster, and with a bit of luck you coul kill it. If you mannage to rear charge you should win by SCR alone, even though you might loose a few models. Of course you will die if you charge a hydra that you do not mannage to kill on the charge...
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Kulgan86 » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 09:54

The issue with running 5 Wild Riders is the lack of the ability to flee. When you set up for a charge with 5 Wild Riders, you will be in range of BS fire, and more dangerously in charge range of enemy cavalry/chariots. When your 5 Wild Riders get succesfully charged by a chariot or 1+/2+ Knights, they will loose 2-3 guys, then break from combat.

In my pessimistic look at warhammer, 5 Wild Riders are almoast always or getting shot by BS fire, or getting charged to death whenever they get close to an enemy battle line.

Glade Riders can flee, but then again they are even more vunerable to BS fire.

If we would have Wild Riders that could flee that would be a decent unit. Robust enough to surive some enemy attention ( both ranged as close combat ) and hard hitting themselves, for those combats against ' light ' targets.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Cariddis » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 10:15

The problem is those other fast cavalry your describe are or clearly superior ( when compared to Glade Riders )[...]

Also : not every army has to forfill every ' task ' . If you try to do everything, you will fail at the things that are not strong points. While you are correct it's the task of fast cavalry to deal with other fast cavalry and lone wizards, we simply do not posses the means to see this through. Glade Riders are too weak, and Wild Riders don't really qualify as fast cavalry, since they can not flee. They're more like very mobile medium shock cavalry.

So you're saying I should thake neither of them because they're are worthless?

Wild riders on the other hand can do quite much if used properly. [...] Though they do not have the armour of empire knights they are much faster and hit a bit harder (ws 5, fury of kurnous). Use this to your advantage. If you flank your opponent he will have fewer models to strike back at you. A unit of 5 won't do much damage, but you could flank small knight units, missile units and warmachines. You can even charge into monsters that have only a few wounds left. You will most likely strike before the monster, and with a bit of luck you coul kill it. If you mannage to rear charge you should win by SCR alone, even though you might loose a few models. Of course you will die if you charge a hydra that you do not mannage to kill on the charge...

Sounds a good tactic; will it be better, if I try to exploit WR this way, to take 10 of them instead of only 5? O you rellay think they could succeed even if they were only 5? Notice that if I took 10 of them, they won't be an expendable unit anymore, since they'll cost 260 points...

[...] When you set up for a charge with 5 Wild Riders, you will be in range of BS fire, and more dangerously in charge range of enemy cavalry/chariots. When your 5 Wild Riders get succesfully charged by a chariot or 1+/2+ Knights, they will loose 2-3 guys, then break from combat.

Just remember that WR would be used carefully with this tactic: just a supportin unit in the flank, in order to overkill the enemy who's already been charged by, say, Dryads or Wardancers or Treekin.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Eglardion » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 10:24

Wild riders are difficult to use, that is for sure. If they could flee it would be great.

However you can minimise the amount of missile fire comming at them or hide in woods to get some cover. With vanguard you can also be in enemy deployment zone on turn 1, and charge any missile units on turn 2. If your enemy has move-or-fire weapons he should not even be able to shoot at you.

As for not getting charged, you have M 9, use it to move out of enemy charge arcs. Easier said than done, but it should be possible. You should dictate the enemy movemnt phase with your shooting and movment. Force your opponent to advance towards your lines and it is a lot easier to get behind them.

A unit of 10 is not expendable, that is for sure. It will cost almost 300 points with command. But 10 guys will be a lot more effective in CC and they can take a few casualties on the way in. I use a unit of 10, but then again they are not for distraction alone. I guess it depends on your army. If you need a fast hard hitting unit take a big one. If you need small scale support that will grant a few wounds, some SCR and mobility, a unit of 5 should do fine.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Cariddis » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 10:46

Eglardion wrote:A unit of 10 is not expendable, that is for sure. It will cost almost 300 points with command.

Excluding the Musician, don't you think that the command is a little overpriced for the benefit? You could save some points without the Wild Hunter and Standard Bearer. 36 points make 3 Dryads/Glade Guard, or a better magic item. Don't you agree?
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Kulgan86 » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 11:50

So you're saying I should thake neither of them because they're are worthless?


Well, I can say I find their usefullness highly dependent on the specific circumstances of the battle.

For example :
* You are facing high elves with only archers for core, and possibly an RBT or two to back them up. No matter how you try to, if you advance them they will de dead if your HE opponent wishes them to be. Usefulness : quite bad.
* You are facing Empire, with cannons/mortars and handgunners/crossbows. In this situation you can cleverly use terrain, lines of sight and vanguard moves, to position 5 Wild Riders in a way so they will not be shot in the flank by a great cannon, initially be within long range and cover from their handguns rendering the handgun fire almoast useless, and in the following turn being outside of their line of sight, setting up for a charge against one of their warmachines. Usefullness : very good!

=> Ultimatly it all comes down to your personal meta game. If you have the luxury of battling against the same few opponents all the time you can easily deduct if the usefullness of a unit will be good or bad, depending on your opponent's typical set ups. If you have no clue what/who you are facing, I like to have units that I know will always be usefull. ( Glade Guard are an exellent example of such a unit )
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Cariddis » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 12:09

Thank you, Kulgan86, for your advice. I actuallly don't get the chance to fight against the same armies, so maybe I should consider taking something more versatile. I might don't take riders of any kind and boost some unit instead; with the spare points I could also take a small unit of Scout: they're even cheaper and more expendables, and really annoy the enemy.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Noght » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 14:07

Cariddis wrote:
The problem is those other fast cavalry your describe are or clearly superior ( when compared to Glade Riders )[...]

Also : not every army has to forfill every ' task ' . If you try to do everything, you will fail at the things that are not strong points. While you are correct it's the task of fast cavalry to deal with other fast cavalry and lone wizards, we simply do not posses the means to see this through. Glade Riders are too weak, and Wild Riders don't really qualify as fast cavalry, since they can not flee. They're more like very mobile medium shock cavalry.

So you're saying I should thake neither of them because they're are worthless?



I'll say it. They are worthless. Fluffy. Look Great. Fun to move around the board. Glade Riders aren't even Glass Cannons, they are just free points for your opponent. Wild Riders are kind of hard hitty (as much as any Str 4 can be considered "hard hitty") but one Magic Missle ruins your day. Wild Riders are great Warmachine killers but when I'm running Empire, I just ignore them and shoot at the 285 point Treeman or peel off 65 point Treekin 2 at a time. Fine your 130 point Wild Riders kill my 100 point cannon, *shrug*. You'd be better off taking the same points worth of Way Watchers for Warmachine hunting, at least they are fairly immune to BS missle fire.

10 Glade Guard > 5 Glade Riders every time. 11 Glade Guard > 5 Wild Riders every time. Not nearly as "fun" but always more effective.

Noght

p.s. I'm taking Glade Riders, Warhawks, Wardancers, Scouts, and Lore of Loren on my lvl 4 in a 2200 point tourney this week. I'm going to get demolished but I'll be competative. I'll try to post some Battle Reps.
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby Cariddis » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 17:46

Noght wrote:p.s. I'm taking Glade Riders, Warhawks, Wardancers, Scouts, and Lore of Loren on my lvl 4 in a 2200 point tourney this week. I'm going to get demolished but I'll be competative. I'll try to post some Battle Reps.

Great! Let us know if Glade Riders and Warhawks will do some decend job, I'm really curious! May I ask you why did you chose Warhawks? Maybe you don't have points for Eagles since you want to field Waywatchers and a Treeman? And why the Lore of Loren?
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Re: Glade Riders or Wild Riders?

Postby popisdead » Fri 13 Jan, 2012 21:24

I think Glade Guard are more usable when you take 5 and pair them with 5 Scouts. The Vanguard and Scout deployment/move allows for 10 shots hitting on 3s. Vs enemy chaff that is fairly helpful and can clear the flank.

Personally though I feel 5 Wild Riders with a Musician are a good unit. When goblin chaff charges them they pump out 15 attacks and are a bit more resilient. While it's not an amazing combo, taking a WR Noble with the Dawnspear is pretty handy and helps combo charges.
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