2400 points, ALL THE SHOOTING

[danny1995]

BEFORE VOTING PLEASE READ FINAL LIST AT BOTTOM OF PAGE

So as you may have noticed I'm kind of spamming lists, I've finally decided that I've been losing to much and so I'm trying to decide on how I'm gonna be running things in the future. My last list was similar to this, slightly less shooting though, this one I'm fielding 94 glade guard, a treeman to tie up anything fast that I'm really scared of, and some GE to reach out and touch war machines. The list is as follows;

Lords 350
Spellweaver lvl 4, Wand of Wych Elm, Talisman of Preservation, 350

Core 1272
10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 162

12 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 162

12 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 162

12 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 162

12 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 162

12 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 162

12 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 162

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

Special 390
6 Tree Kin 390

Rare 385
1 Great Eagle 50
1 Great Eagle 50
1 Treeman 285

2397

So yeah, sit back with TK and TM, and GG, wait for them, someone decides to charge gg, hit them with a TM or TK and see how they like it, and to defend the trees, send out the GE to tie up whatever war machines they feel like shooting

[Playonwords]

These kind of lists are now considered to be the most competetive WE can make, but you still need a BSB. You really cant do without him. Plus, you can then get in the HoD which gives you more shots.

[Woodsinger]

I really need to get my butt in gear and paint Glade Guard because I want to do this too.

Only thing I would think about changing here is to maybe take out a few standards from the GG units. Not sure you need that many, since if those units are fighting in combat, they're basically dead anyway. Good to have a few that you can park at the back table edge in case of Blood and Glory, but other than that...

Also yes, a BSB with the hail of doom. Essential.

I dig it though... please post either some battle reports or even just a quick run-down on how the list performs, I'm interested to see if it lives up to the hype!

[niko77]

This is very similar to the list I ususally run. I would agree that you should drop the standards on all but one of the glade guard units. Bump up one unit of GG to twenty, put your spellweaver in that, drop the talisman for the Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, and put the Banner of Eternal Flame on that unit. Run your other GG units in groups of ten. The key here is positioning your GG units so that when one of them gets destroyed in CC or flees, you have at least two other units in short range of the enemy unit to swift reform and open up on them with S4 shooting.

I would also agree that a BSB with the HoDA is needed. You'll need those LD rerolls for the swift reforms.

[Andrew]

I say keep all the standards. Insta-losing B&G sucks

[danny1995]

Slight modifications made, on account of advice. I also decided to go for EVEN MORE SHOOTING, which means I ditched my TK. But come on, how good is it to release 110 s4 shots in one turn?

Lords 350
Spellweaver lvl 4, Wand of Wych Elm, Talisman of Preservation, 350

Heroes 152
Noble BSB, Light Armour, Asyendi's Bane, Hail of Doom Arrow, Dragon Helm, 152

Core 1282
18 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 234 (bunker unit for SW and Noble)

12 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame 172

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

Rare 385
1 Great Eagle 50
1 Great Eagle 50
1 Treeman 285

2396

Edit; Added in flaming banner on unit of 12, the extra punch could be useful

[danny1995]

The biggest problem I see with this list is that I simply won't be able to put them all end to end on the table

[Ravenlord]

You might need someone to bring some flaming attacks. Can come in handy.

[Woodsinger]

Psst... put the flaming banner on the unit of 18 where your characters are! Then you have a flaming HoD Arrow!

Also... you REALLY REALLY don't need 10 standards! I'm not kidding! I'd keep maybe 3 of them... at MOST... and then that's like, 42 points to use for something else!

I'd also drop the dragon helm from your BSB... to be honest, he doesn't need it. If anything is fighting that unit in hand to hand, it's toast, so you're better off putting those points into something else...

You may want to consider using the points savings plus a bit more to put in some waywatchers. They are mobile, can take down war machines if need be, and they are a very big threat to armored units like knights. (Not terribly effective, in my experience, but you can watch them scramble away!)

Just my two cents.

[Moose123]

That is one scary army list there Danny. But I would find a way to fit in some more redirectors, maybe min units of scouts or naked branchwraiths. Sure the eagles are great but they can only do so much before they get killed, and getting lots turns with lots of shooting is very important.

[USG_Ishimura]

I don´t think it´s a good idea. Having a lot of shooting is awesome, but you have to think to have some treekin to stop some units and to finish all you have weakened.

Also, a lot of archers will disturb themself because of the space in table and the line of sight.

[Tehethan]

Just wondering... What's the point of these kind of lists? It's just throwing dices once and again, with nearly nought tactic attached to the list... Just plain boring to play against it or with it, if you ask me

[danny1995]

YOU find it boring, YOU find it has no tactics, but in MY opinion it will be a fun list to play, and I'm the one who will be playing it. I'm asking for opinions on effectiveness and composition, not entertainment value.

[danny1995]

I don´t think it´s a good idea. Having a lot of shooting is awesome, but you have to think to have some treekin to stop some units and to finish all you have weakened.

Also, a lot of archers will disturb themself because of the space in table and the line of sight.

The idea is to redirect whatever may come at me with GE, taking one more turn of shooting at least, anything really big that comes at me, i throw my tree man at to take care of. I have done the calculations, and I can fit EVERY unit on with none of them blocking each other, admittedly terrain may change this, but I can solve that in turn 1 usually.

[Tehethan]

No offense intended, just wanted to point out that in a same-type list scenario elves will always lose: just imagine a gunline, horde or armored army and then you are sorted out: against dwarves or empire you are outshoot, even skinks will make you have a hard time, skavens will just run over that army list just for the sake of it (way too many bodies to outnumber you, probably won't be able to kill enough enemies to make it to a decent combat phase) and OnG as well, daemons and dark elves are still superior in movement so they will have the advantage to pick combats, high elves, slanns and khemri will easily wipe out your list with less shooting and more magic, WoC will laugh at your puny S3/S4 shoots with their armours and wards or combat abilities, and ogres movement and shooting can cause panic to every T3 10 bodies units you have, making it pretty disastrous if they are out of the 12'' bubble of the BSB.

Certainly I wouldn't rely on any shooting based list, even less with elves, so I just recommend you to add a little more of variety for the sake of both fun and tactics.

[Playonwords]

Hmmm, i have to disagree with you there Tehethan.

Most top ETC players will agree that the Glade guard-heavy shooting list is probably the most competetive WE can bring to the table. Granted, those types of lists generally differ from danny1995s in that they have several units of 8 dryads (usually 4) to redirect from your archer line. And ive heard it said all those archer units have to move EVERY turn in the right way to be effective - but it can be done.

Some of your comments seem a little odd as well. How can a dwarf or empire gunline compete with a WE shooting list? For a start WE generally start in range (30") with longbows compared to a 24" handgun, then you waste a turn moving forward without shooting. If youre talking warmachines, then massed longbow fire also takes those out within a couple of turns while those same warmachines have too many targets to be effective. If i was WE with that list id love to face a gunline. Armored armies are also going to have a tough time vs a WE shooting list. Why? They are few in number, and there are just too many shots coming at them for their armor to save. Throw chaff units like dryads and eagles in their way and then whittle them down to nothing. You have to see it to believe it, but the maths is on the WE side. Hordes are a problem i grant you, but again - use your chaff units the right way and those hordes never reach you. Pick your targets well with shooting, and those massive hordes will still die to massed fire.

If you dont believe me with all this, fair enough - check the UK-based podcasts (cant remember which one im afraid) and hear it straight from the horses mouth.

[Woodsinger]

It was Mark Borland on an episode of Bad Dice. The thinking is that this is the "meanest" we can get as wood elves. I'm not 100% sold, and it would really suck for your opponent, but apparently it works. Let's face it, NOTHING is standing up to 110 shots per turn.

[Moose123]

If you want to be really, really, really cheesy you could take out the treeman, put in a highborn with Fozzricks folding fortress, model a 15 story tower. Then you merge all of your glade guard units in to one huge deathstar, use all the command points for a sniper or some other noble. After that you stick your glade guard deathstar in the tower. With these changes you have the most boring list to play but you will win every game, or at least get a draw.

I do not recommend making a list like this but if you are going to Ard Boys then it is a valid option.

[Yuri]

@danny
What would you do against, lets say, list full of units of knights? And you shouldn't get all flamed up on mr. Tehethan, as he's mostly right about what he says, and he only asked a question.

@playonwords
Most ETC players won't use this list because its not legal by etc rules.

You'll have few problems with this list. 1st, movement phase; you'll find your units blocking each other. 2nd, leadership; Ld8 can be easily failed out of 12" bubble. 3rd, you have only two eagles which wont be able to redirect endlessly, only for one round. 4th, magic phase; magic will rape you by killing your treeman. 5th, combat phase will come sooner than you think and plan, and you'll lose units one by one. 6th, there's no back up plan, only plan A and that's it. 7th, 30" range isn't "anywhere on table" range. 8th, don't expect big wins, just minor ones if you play perfectly.

I suggest you take balanced list, with everything mixed in. That's the best WE can get.

[Tehethan]

How can a dwarf or empire gunline compete with a WE shooting list? For a start WE generally start in range (30") with longbows compared to a 24" handgun, then you waste a turn moving forward without shooting. If youre talking warmachines, then massed longbow fire also takes those out within a couple of turns while those same warmachines have too many targets to be effective. If i was WE with that list id love to face a gunline. Armored armies are also going to have a tough time vs a WE shooting list. Why? They are few in number, and there are just too many shots coming at them for their armor to save.

I have to disagree there, against a dwarf player you also can have xbows, which are what most players get since you can equip them with 2h weapons, and those have 30'' as well; besides, if you really want to hurt them you have to be in short range for the S4 hits. Concerning the armoured armies, most of them (WoC or Bretonnia) have so much armor and ward against shooting that you'd barely score a couple of kills each turn if focus just in one unit (and these armies have chaff as well to block and get you a penalty to shooting for cover). That is, of course, if terrain is just a wasteland with no forests, buildings and whatnot, which is not particularly the often, and taking that in consideration you always have to count that those elements will either block your sight or grant the shooting a -1/-2 penalty.

[erised]

Toughest lists WE can take are max treekin and max glade guard supported by weaver and BSB. Hands down. These are the two best units at our disposal. Throw in a few GE to re-direct/warmachine hunt.

Max GG with little close combat is another gunline (a very spread out gunline) - does great against some armies (aka High elves, some dark elf lists, wood elves) but against others good luck (dwarfs, anything with heavy cavalry + screen units, unkillable characters on flyers).

Mix GG with TK and you have solid shooting with very good close combat. Re-direct intelligently and utilize smart target priority and you will win the game against many lists.

[danny1995]

Okay, didn't mean to start up a flame war here guy, this list is based of the Blue Table Painting Rainforest Elves list. After watching their videos I decided to make an attempt on a version of my own for it, 110 shots MAY be a little excessive, especially because of the space it will take up on the board getting in the way of movement. Now, the option has been bumped around to add some dryads as chaff, and a naked branch wraith for redirection. Now, the idea I have gotten from collecting all the communities ideas is to drop a few GG here and there, in favor of approximately 4 units of 8 Dryads, I might shift those numbers slightly to have a nice unit of 9 plus a naked branch wraith to either stall, or take out the last bits of a unit. I do not intend to be tournament play, win EVERY game, but I'd like that option. There has been very little word on peoples opinions of the Treeman, I'm thinking I may drop him just to fit in more dryads, and maybe some spites on the branch wraith or some more naked branch wraiths to throw around as chaff (after all pretty decent combat while still being only 15 points more then a GE). Also, Tehethan, I do apologize if you feel that I have been angry with you, I did not intend to seem that way, I just felt like pointing out that boring and interesting are opinions, not facts, which is what I'm looking for here. Since this is already a very long post I'm going to quickly post the list with modifications;

Lords 350
Spellweaver lvl 4, Wand of Wych Elm, Talisman of Preservation, 350

Heroes 397
Noble BSB, Light Armour, Asyendi's Bane, Hail of Doom Arrow, Dragon Helm, 152

Branchwraith, Cluster of Radiant, Pageant of Shrikes, 115

Branchwraith 65

Branchwraith 65

Core 1354
18 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 234 (bunker unit for SW and Noble)

12 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame 172

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Musician, 138

10 Glade Guard, Musician, 138

8 Dryads, 96

8 Dryads, 96

8 Dryads, 96

9 Dryads, 108

Special 195
3 Treekin, 195

Rare 100
1 Great Eagle 50
1 Great Eagle 50

2396

So, that's about all the changes I can think of

[Yuri]

One more thing which I found out while playing, think it might be useful for you, so give it a try.
1st - Bsb in my opinion doesn't need any additional equipment except Hail+Bane. If he gets into combat he's dead. That's already one dryad/archers in points.
2nd - Talisman of Preservation is also not needed on your mage lord. I found out I've never rolled that 4+ ward. In fact, if (s)he gets in combat, (s)he is going to die. I'd switch it for Moonstone to give your unit, with most points in it, an escape goat.
3rd - I don't know about your community, but in my (and several others) Blood and Glory is almost never played. Battleline is the scenario, like no other exists. So, I'd take out banners on your archer units. You don't need them; too few archers and will probably die in combat (banner won't save them), that's easy points for opponent, you get more points to spend on dryads/archers/treekin.
4th - Think about WW. They are expensive, but they can get rid of flying tin-cans which can make you an headache.

[Ravenlord]

4th - Think about WW. They are expensive, but they can get rid of flying tin-cans which can make you an headache.

I second this. You don´t really have anything that can handle armour, except perhaps Treekin but they are hard to get into position, atleast if you´re up against heavy cavalry.


P.s
Sorry for the post about flaming attacks - didn´t read your list close enough

[danny1995]

Yet another redo;
Lords 304
Spellweaver lvl 4, Wand of Wych Elm, 304

Heroes 335
Noble BSB, Asyendi's Bane, Hail of Doom Arrow, 140

Branchwraith 65

Branchwraith 65

Branchwraith 65

Core 1420
18 Glade Guard, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flames 244 (bunker unit for SW and Noble)

12 Glade Guard, Musician, 150

12 Glade Guard, Musician, 150

12 Glade Guard, Musician, 150

12 Glade Guard, Musician, 150

12 Glade Guard, Musician, 150

10 Glade Guard, Musician, 126

8 Dryads, 96

8 Dryads, 96

9 Dryads, 108 (all three Branchwraiths in here, jump out to act as re-directors, or stay in to add some combat insanity)

Special 195
3 Treekin, 195

Rare 340
5 Waywatchers, 120
5 Waywatchers, 120
1 Great Eagle 50
1 Great Eagle 50

2400

Some people said to take Moonstone, I don't like it, I find it's very situational, if there are two forests, and they are on opposite sides I can use it, but otherwise, no.