Warhawk riders

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Warhawk riders

Postby Kissaten » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:30 am

Looking over army lists used by other people I see very few people using warhawks and I don't know why... Sure they are kinda expensive, 3WH for 5GR but in terms of what they do I value them alot higher then GR, with the whole flying and hit and run thing going on. So why don't people use them, they even have stomp in the new edition! and being able to charge every turn from Hit and run gives a +1 combat resolution every turn when you need it (+some for flank and rear).

Is there something I missed that makes these guys lame? Or do people take glade riders to bump up there core choice points and save special for other units?
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Re: Warhawk riders

Postby Fnords » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:15 am

Can't speak for other people but I simply don't have the models. And as you say I feel
that they almost the same job as Glade Riders (which i have 20 of). I would guess
that quite a lot of people are in the same position as me.

That being said Would be interesting to hear what people have to say about this topic,
have been wondering if they are worth the points and if there's any areas I haven't thought
about that they could be useful.
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Re: Warhawk riders

Postby Hjiryon » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:22 am

You also very rarely see Glade Riders used by now. The reason is simple: Point a few arrows at them, and the archer unit will earn back their points really quick.
Warhawk Riders are about as bad in that regard.
Compare Glade Riders with Ellyrian Reavers and/or Dark Riders and it's also fairly apparent that you're paying more for the same. For me at least, dryads and Glade Guard are the stable core choices, and I often spend way in excess of 25% of my points on those units.

They would be really good warmachine hunters - but there's always great eagles, who're often sufficient, more durable and - importantly - cheaper for what they do.
The only reason I'd ever take Warhawk riders would be if for some reason I needed more than 2 great eagles. I can see that happening, which is why I've been toying with the idea of including a unit of warhawks recently... But it'd only really be good against gunline type armies like the empire handgunner line, I reckon.

I really want to like Warhawk Riders. But with True Line of Sight, they're easy points asking to be shot.
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Re: Warhawk riders

Postby unicorn » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:27 am

From my experience, they are... nearly useless now.
Yes, 3 (or better 4) can shut down enemy lvl2 mage on charge against many armies. BUT... 3 are 120, 4 are 160. L2 mage is usually less.
This is 1st thing. Another one is... They are one use only unit now. With all that attacks they eat back in 8th ed, you will loose so many wounds on charge that, usually, 2nd charge will mean suicide. And with new "no halves, only fully death units" VP system this mean, you need to hide (or serving your opponent 120-140 pts on silver plate) after your very 1st charge.
And warmashine hunting? Eagle can do the some work for less that half of the price.

What means... They are now useless in my book. But maybe someone another have different experience with them.
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Re: Warhawk riders

Postby Kissaten » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:40 am

Hmm I guess so... I do just like em cos they sum up what I think wood elves are all about, and hope more units had, with hit and run.

All my experiences have been really good using them (but then we play on hideously small tables due to easyness) but they do always die easily when shot at :(
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Re: Warhawk riders

Postby Allendor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:56 am

When you speak of fast mobility that can participate in every turn, you can not beat warhawk riders.
I haven't used them in the 8th because I did not have time to play any games this summer.
But I will in two units of 3. Along with eagles and glade riders you will rule the movement phase.
Plus being able to position your longbows anywhere on the table.
No amount of planning can ever replace dumb luck.
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Re: Warhawk riders

Postby unicorn » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:22 am

Allendor wrote:When you speak of fast mobility that can participate in every turn, you can not beat warhawk riders.
But I will in two units of 3. Along with eagles and glade riders you will rule the movement phase.

Yes, you will dominate movement phase. But you will be dominated in any CC phase you will participate in easily; even the back attack into the Skaven slaves means statistically 1 wound taken. Frontal attack against stupid clanrats (in order to take down l2 mage) means 2 wounds. And so on...
So, in terms of CC, it is one-use (maximally 2-use) unit.

And because you can not hide yourself behind woods; and because of WMs having indirect shooting, it is also nice to dominate movement phase, but WhRs means damn easy 120 VPs (what is a LOT in this eddition), and so they will be dominated in shooting phase (or two) by most opponents.

I will like to say they are glass cannons, but they are not. They are glass snow ball. Fast, but dying whenever they try to do anything.
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Re: Warhawk riders

Postby Allendor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:37 pm

I don't think of warhawk riders as CC units. They are there to get behind the enemy, harass him, turn him around and shoot.
Only later in the game if everything is right and they can combine with other units would I use them in CC.
No amount of planning can ever replace dumb luck.
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Re: Warhawk riders

Postby Drool_bucket » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:51 am

It's very easy to ignore 3 Str 3 attacks from a unit. It's even easy to ignore the 6 STR 4 attacks on the charge.

They, like Glade Riders, are either over-costed or underpowered in the 8th edition world. In 6th and 7th where high, fluid movement was key because of flank charges and rank busting bonuses, that's gone in 8th, so those units that did that aren't worth it any more.

I am interested in seeing what GW does with these "core" WE choices. They are gonna have to drop the price, which means more MSU, or up power them will keeping them T3 and almost no armor. If I had to guess they will become better shooters to compensate.

Everyone with Glade Bows would be nice....
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Re: Warhawk riders

Postby unicorn » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:27 am

Allendor wrote:I don't think of warhawk riders as CC units. They are there to get behind the enemy, harass him, turn him around and shoot.
Only later in the game if everything is right and they can combine with other units would I use them in CC.

Harras? How? Make him turn? Why?
I really do not know how they wil ldo such things. For 120 pts, you get 3 S3 arrows. This is not harrasing. Marchblocking? Ld (with BSB re-roll) and who cares? Charge? I already say what I think about their CC. If there are no MSU skirmish units or warmashines behind enemy line, I can hardly see why anyone will care to turn around to face WhRs. Shoot them down with his own shooting or magic? Yes. But turn their blocks because of them? No.
With no option to hide behind buildings and/or woods and with easily ignorable marchblocking I can hardly see any reason to take them anymore (and I love them in 7th ed). They are average in WM hunting, but still - only 2 of them can fight and as they can not use the stomp! against WMs.

If you have good experiences with them in 8th, I am glad to hear that. But personally, I can not second that, as in 8th, I find them to be nothing more that 120 free VPs for my opponents. And in games where only fully destroyed units counts, 120 is horrible high number.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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