Treeman vs treekin

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Treeman vs treekin

Postby Polfus » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:04 pm

No idea if this has been talked about but, what is best overall between a treeman and treekin?

the treeman is 285 = 4 treekin (they are a bit cheaper then 285 but)

in what situasions are a treeman better then 4 treekin?

I know its easyer for the treeman to get where he wants to be and all. I was thinking of using a unit of 6 tree kin and a unit of 3 in my army, but considering dropping the small unit for a treeman (find some points for it)
if people can justify why a treeman would be better.. in what situasions, and what makes a treeman better then treekin, or wiseversa!
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby dusk1983 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:16 am

the only benefit to a treeman over treekin that i can see is that he is stubborn. meaning you can throw him into combat with a low strength horde to keep them busy for several turns. (makes a good anvil)

But four treekin have more wounds, more attacks, more staying power and are less likely to get wasted by a single lucky cannonball shot.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Lowb » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:47 am

It is much more than that.

He can shoot (and stand&shoot), he has magic, also S and T 6 which makes a good diference, more maneuvrable by a lot than treekin, thunderstomps things and has a better scaly skin, also causes Terror and has 1 more WS.

All in all I think he's a good choice that gives your oponent something to think about when he's deployed and you just gotta watch out for cannonballs.

I always field one if points allow and together with a unit of 6 treekin they pack the good punch missing in the rest of our army.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Billthesurly » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:43 pm

I agree with Lowb - my "fair and balanced", generic, one-with-everything army OB at 2500 pts includes a Treeman and 6 Treekin. They're like peanutbutter and chocolate. Two great things that go great together. :drool:

Did somebody mention avoiding cannonballs? :paranoid: Particularly those nasty little flaming ones. God I hate those.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Luminith » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:11 pm

I'd go with tree kin over the treeman if I had to choose. The tree kin have much more survivability and give you more time to regrow them with life magic. Although stubborn is amazing, the tree man has a lot of natural predators in 8th and is an easy target if you can't get him into combat ASAP.

Cannonballs are bad, but also lore of metal takes him down in no time. 3 wounds from searing doom (wounding on 3s) will take him out, while the same on tree kin (wounding on 4s) will take down one and do 2 wounds on another. That still leaves lots of tree kin to wreak havoc on whoever's in front of them :p
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby zombiefaith » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:14 pm

The best option should be two units of 6 treekin and two treemen with a lvl.4 lifeweaver hahaha (sounds crazy but you can deploy them with 60 archers and a BSB if you play a 2500p game)

I've tried both of them and they can't be compared , their uses are differents . Treekin have to break units with their massive number of S5 attacks , a Treeman has to find a place to stay and stay . He's able to face many enemy units without suffering a real damage and also hurt them a lot while not running due to the stubborness .

It depends of the kind of list you're playing , in my army I run two treemen in order to block the enemy infantry while my other troops shoot and kill . But I think that a treeman brings more to our army than the treekin , as the partner said they bring you more fire and magic .
And also we have to consider that cannonballs take down a treekin with 3+ and thre treeman with 6+ . But anyway , against firing proyectiles I have two characters with dragon helm and dragonbane gem to make the enemy look for them as easy points (evil laugh against tomb kings) .
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby haimerej » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:59 am

thats good pointing out the treeman just sits there to hold a combat up. he wont be there long if they are bloodthirsters. S5 flaming attacks... pfffffff! better off running and diverting

i run 6 treekin, and a treeman. they need protection! and so a unit of 9 waywatchers with a waywatcher noble who also has hail of doom arrow.
hail of doom arrow is shot first turn. because one game i had, the waywatchers were charged and overran, and i never got to take the shot!!
the waywatchers main goal is to take out the enemies mage or warmachines..
its funny how the enemy will usually ignore the waywatchers for the first turn. then the second or third turn they then divert a unit after them. meanwhile i can just keep backing up and firing till i get some assistance over there.

but in the next competition i have im going to use my waywatchers as part of my plan to surround the enemy in a horse shoe.
the waywatchers being the far unit, and then the vanguard glade riders being in the middle. the horse shoe idea is good because im looking to take down horde armies, where they will just pile up on me and kill me, unless i spread them out. anyways of topic. just pointing out specifically my waywatchers are needed every time to protect.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby popisdead » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:40 am

Treekin are just as weak vs flaming Bestigor attacks as a Treeman (actually worse as there will be more attacks coming at them).

If there was a mechanism to re-roll To Hits for Treekin (their big shortcoming) I would sink my faith into them.

They perform different tasks I don't think I would compare them. Especially just 4 Treekin.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Kurnous » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:00 pm

Personly (never having used a treeman) I think tree kin are really great having smashed my dads 40 strong hored of gor taking only one casualty :) :) :) :)
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby sentinalofthewoods » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:07 pm

Problem is the treeman dies to everything and the treekin generaly lose to combat res and get run down
 
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby popisdead » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:50 pm

Surprised, Gors are usually S5, T5, they should have done a bit better. Also with a Miasma spam the Gors would have been hitting on 3s and you return hitting on 5s with no re-roll.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Bogi » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:07 pm

Hard to stop the miasma and the wildform or 2.
Treeman are better statistically and in theory but...
There are so many things that take treeman out so easily. They are great but overcosted compared to other monsters. Sometimes your opponent wont be able to take them out and at other times he will look upon him and say, free points. Careful with them but be aggressive and take more then 1, 3 if you can!
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Rogue Sun » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:44 am

Bogi wrote:They are great but overcosted compared to other monsters.


I'm not sure I can agree with this. When you compare it to creatures of similar cost such as a Ghorgon from the Beastmen book they're pretty comparable. Treemen have 2 less movement, 1 higher WS, same Strength, Toughness and Wounds, 1 lower Initiative and attacks and 2 lower leadership. However Treemen have a spell and a fairly brutal shooting attack. Additionally, Treemen have a VERY respectable armor save, which the Ghorgon does not have in any capacity as well as a 5+ ward save. The downside of course being that they're flammable, but it's a trade off really. Treemen are pretty much the same as most other army books big nasty creatures given their cost.

The issue is that we have treekin which are a hop, skip and a jump away from being monsters themselves. Really, I see Treemen playing an anvil, keeping bricks of infantry in place while a hammer such as Treekin or Wardancers hit it. They simply serve different roles, and while Treekin can kind of play both hammer and anvil they would rather play hammer.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby PaW » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:55 am

Treeman ... All the way

Treekin yes Deal more damage. But are so clunky and can't actually maneourve to save themselves.
Treeman can ignore and move around Chaff. And just shoot it. 360 shooting got to love it

Also Treeman needs no room to deal out full damage. Making it Much better for combo Charges etc.
Causes Terror for 17" charges just to force panic tests. (also important for when chaff blocks you)

TreeKin seem to suffer against anything that isn't infantry. I don't find this so much the case with a treeman due to stubborn

But The main reason i like it . Is I can move 10" sideways and face any direction
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Bogi » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:08 am

Rogue Sun wrote:I'm not sure I can agree with this. When you compare it to creatures of similar cost such as a Ghorgon from the Beastmen book they're pretty comparable. Treemen have 2 less movement, 1 higher WS, same Strength, Toughness and Wounds, 1 lower Initiative and attacks and 2 lower leadership. However Treemen have a spell and a fairly brutal shooting attack. Additionally, Treemen have a VERY respectable armor save, which the Ghorgon does not have in any capacity as well as a 5+ ward save. The downside of course being that they're flammable, but it's a trade off really. Treemen are pretty much the same as most other army books big nasty creatures given their cost.


You are comparing him to an overcosted monster... why not compare him to a Hydra, Hell pit, Steam tank, Sphinxes, Bone Giants, Arachnarok, Hellcannon, dig daemon contraption, the kdaii!!, other things. There are not many gorgons on the table and for good reason.

Now i use my treeman and i love them but they need a re-write definitely. The bound spell, when do you cast it in the current ed? I think i cast it a few times only.

I also like the fact that it can move sideways and face any direction. But treekin are not so bad either, free reform after combat can face them in any direction. They are happy against most T6 monsters and against dragons and their riders. The ward save helps against the high S attacks. They can also be wildformed up. Hardly will something charge them that can make them flee.... keep away from high S magical flaming attacks and you are fine.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Billthesurly » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:39 pm

I discovered early on that Treekin are not at all partial to Dwarven Hammerers with a Banner of Eternal Flame. Ouch! But then, a Treeman wouldn't fare much better. I find that anything I don't want to take on with my Treekin, I probably don't want to stick my Treeman onto either.

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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby popisdead » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:05 pm

Rogue Sun wrote: When you compare it to creatures of similar cost such as a Ghorgon from the Beastmen book they're pretty comparable. .


Which, as everyone knows, are hugely overcosted. The Jabberslythe shouldn't be more than 150, the Ghorgon 200 at most, Cygor falling in the middle.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Rogue Sun » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:03 pm

Comparing an old army book monster to a new army book monster makes no sense though. I intentionally compared it to another old army book monster because it points out that when they were initially designed they were comparable with each other. Of course a new army book monster like the Sphinx is going to be better.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Johnny-Crass » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:38 pm

And comparing a Treeman to a Kdaii, Hellpit or Hydra is just a mistake as those monsters are insanely cost-efficient
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Kurnous » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:37 pm

sentinalofthewoods wrote: treekin generaly lose to combat res and get run down


I found that out to my cost when using 650pt list. Lost combat res on ranks and I didn't suffer a wound rolled a 3 on fleeing :cry:
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Moose123 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:00 am

I used to be a treekin maniac!

But as I started to play less and less against ogres I found them to be very vulnerable to getting run down in close combat, whereas the treeman is much more vunerable to shooting. My treeman has started to be a big, hard, stone center of my armies.
But here, cleverly disguised as a bomb, is a bomb.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Ramesesis » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:15 pm

I have never fielded more than three treekins but they have always preformed admirably in my battle lines. Last game with them they pulverized a unit of skeletons with a vampire lord and wight standard bearer inside. Hillarious!
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Soltari » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:06 pm

Treeman and Treekin are absolutely different units, they have differnt purposes, one is rare, the second special choice. You can not get correct answer to your question, it depends on what are you using them for. It is similar to are better GR or WR? :D
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Soltari » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:13 pm

popisdead wrote:Surprised, Gors are usually S5, T5, they should have done a bit better. Also with a Miasma spam the Gors would have been hitting on 3s and you return hitting on 5s with no re-roll.


If I remember it correct, Gors (Herd) are S3 T4.
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Re: Treeman vs treekin

Postby Moose123 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:46 pm

Not with the mandatory beastbanner, and the obvious wildform cast on them. Then they are t5 s5.
But here, cleverly disguised as a bomb, is a bomb.
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