[LEAF] Art of War: Dark Elves

[LEAF Bot]

Art of War: Dark Elves

The LEAF Team is pleased to announce the latest posted article to the Library of Educational Articles Feature (The LEAF).
This time, it is the Art of War: Dark Elves which finally sees the light of day. Our dark kin are a fearsome enemy upon the field of battle, so hopefully this article will help you to understand the threat the Druchii pose and how best to go about defeating them.

As always, the article may contain spelling errors, grammatical errors and other flaws. If you find any, this thread is the best place to report them and the LEAF Team will fix them as soon as possible.

Thanks for reading!

[lune]

2) The Stubborn-providing character. This role works in cooperation with the Cauldron of Blood. As Khainite characters can join non-Khainite units, any unit joined by a Death Hag becomes Stubborn if within 12“ of the Cauldron of Blood. This is a really awesome thing, as you can easily imagine. The only drawback is the Frenzied Death Hag. Remember that and use this against any Druchii player who will try to use this strategy against you – if you put any of your units within charge range of the Hag, the whole unit must charge, otherwise she will leave the unit and charge alone. This can be used to disturb the enemy battle line...

Is that another Druchii special rule? As far as I recall heroes do not provide their stubborn rule to any unit they join (though if both unit and hero are stubborn, the better of the 2 Leaderships can be used for the test).

6.2.3 Druchii Shadestar - 2250pts
Null Talisman (x4)

<- should be 3 nulls?

Apart from that a nice reading

[unicorn]

2) The Stubborn-providing character. This role works in cooperation with the Cauldron of Blood. As Khainite characters can join non-Khainite units, any unit joined by a Death Hag becomes Stubborn if within 12“ of the Cauldron of Blood. This is a really awesome thing, as you can easily imagine. The only drawback is the Frenzied Death Hag. Remember that and use this against any Druchii player who will try to use this strategy against you – if you put any of your units within charge range of the Hag, the whole unit must charge, otherwise she will leave the unit and charge alone. This can be used to disturb the enemy battle line...

Is that another Druchii special rule? As far as I recall heroes do not provide their stubborn rule to any unit they join (though if both unit and hero are stubborn, the better of the 2 Leaderships can be used for the test).

Nope. They do not provide ItP. They DO provide Stubbron, as clearly stated on BRB page 78.

6.2.3 Druchii Shadestar - 2250pts
Null Talisman (x4)

<- should be 3 nulls?

This is ORIGINAL roster, as posted on Druchii,net. Besides that, NATURAL magic ressistence can not be greater that 3. On other hand, there is no rule stating that the 4 null talismans can not provide you with MR4.

Apart from that a nice reading

Thank you

[lune]

any unit joined by a Death Hag becomes Stubborn if within 12“ of the Cauldron of Blood.

Nope. They do not provide ItP. They DO provide Stubbron, as clearly stated on BRB page 78.

Thanks for the clarification, wasn't aware of that (always must've cross-read a not into that paragraph )
Though I mentiioned nowhere something about ItP

This is ORIGINAL roster, as posted on Druchii,net.

No intend there, I'm just browsing asrai

NATURAL magic ressistence can not be greater that 3. On other hand, there is no rule stating that the 4 null talismans can not provide you with MR4.

RAW vs RAI here, I'd say. BRB p.95 states that 'some units have a natural resistance or feature arcane artifacts that prefevent them from baneful damage' (translated from german, so not word-by-word). The header itself indicates that there's no magic restiance greater than 3 due the the header-line being 'magic resistance (1-3)'.
Wish GW could make their rules clearer.. 6th edition I had very few discussions between RAW and RAI.. excluding some curcumstances with buildungs.. well, becoming off topic.

Hope you see my point, that's all, uni

[unicorn]

Thanks for the clarification, wasn't aware of that (always must've cross-read a not into that paragraph )

I mention ItP because it works as you described, thats all

[Beithir Seun]

You will notice that under the character in question (the Dread Lord carrying the 4 Null Talismans), it states he has Magic Resistance 3. That is a deliberate change by me because a model can never have more than Magic Resistance 3, even if he's carrying 4 Null Talismans. The section on Magic Resistance in the BRB clearly shows that Magic Resistance ranges from 1 to 3. There is absolutely no indication that you can have anything above 3. The fact that the BRB does not say you cannot have MR4 is evidence that you can. The fact that the BRB does say you can have Magic Resistance 1-3 should be evidence that you can have Magic Resistance 1, 2 or 3. Not 4.

[czar05]

Very interesting read, thanks

[unicorn]

The fact that the BRB does say you can have Magic Resistance 1-3 should be evidence that you can have Magic Resistance 1, 2 or 3. Not 4.

Personally I will agree, but at Druchii.net (and some other ppl I know) come to different conclusion, with reasons I post earlier. Even in my local (national) community the opinions differs. Sorry I forget to mention it.
But once again, I re-post the original Shadestar army as presented on Druchii.net, with no changes made no matter my opinions about certain setups.

[Fikol]

provides great insights, thanks!!

[unicorn]

provides great insights, thanks!!

Glad it was helpful for you!

[Leafstalker]

Thank you for the great info. I read and was enlightened. One of my big matches will be against a Dark Elf who likes to play the most powerful list he can put together... scary, but not to much after I read this. THANK YOU

[Kael Khyran]

The previously-mentioned Shadestar. Looks weird, but when played properly by the capable player it is an extremely dangerous list! Note that all the characters will join the Shades unit. Army created by Furgil from Druchii.net; also known as King Leonidas at Asrai.org.

Dread Lord ~ 250 Pts
* Repeater crossbow, Soulrender, Armour of Darkness, Null Talisman (x4)
(Strength 6, Magic Resistance 3, 1+ Armour save)
Master ~ 164 Pts
* Great weapon; repeater crossbow; heavy armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Standard of
Hag Graef
Master ~ 154 Pts
* Great weapon; repeater crossbow; heavy armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; shield, Gem of Nightmares; Pearl of Infinite Bleakness
(the unit is Immune to Psychology; and for one turn, whole unit causes Fear)
Master ~ 154 Pts
* Great weapon; repeater crossbow; heavy armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; shield, Whip of Agony, Ring of Hotek
(4 attacks with Strength 5 and Armour Piercing; enemy Miscast on any double)
Dark Elf Assassin ~ 156 Pts
* Additional Hand Weapon; Repeater Handbow, Manbane, Rune of Khaine
40 Shades ~ 778 Pts
* Great weapons; repeater crossbows; light armour, Bloodshade

Ironic that this list was proposed by a guy called "king leonidas" as the 40 shade+all characters in that unit has something spartanian tbh stand vs many

on a serious note though, I was wondering what you could possibly suggest against such a unit? They have almost no LOS issues, run through woods w/o difficulties and will most start the fight in shooting range (presumed you're able to place 40 shades in a wood lol). So after giving it a thought or two, here is a rather reliable tactic against them that should get rid of them pretty easily.

You will need: at least two units of 8 dryades, 2 great close combat units (wardancers, Wr, treekin, if possible some hero somewhere) so here is what you could do to destroy this extremely expensive unit (should do more than 1k victory points).
1. Place a unit of dryades around the shades in such a way that they won't be able to move around the unit to shoot at anything else (even if they move, remember, you can spread skirmishers pretty far apart- a unit of 12 dryades would be better than 8 I presume)
2. Place your wild riders, treekins, wr and 2nd unit of dryades behind them (after all it's a 1k expensive unit, so you will have enough effectives)
3. The shades will shoot and WILL wipe out the unit of dryades during their shooting.
4. Charge the shades with the 2nd unit of dryades and watch them getting exterminated
5. Charge with your WR +wardancers (they won't be able to stand and shoot as they already shot at the dryades this turn) if placed correctly in first turn, both your units should be able to charge, one frint, one flank. They can't win this. Collect your points (you sacrified 200 poimts for killing halfbhis unit. You will kill enough shades to be safe of any replica so pray that his masters will not kill too many of your guys
6. Note that those units are immun to psychology and thus will not flee when dryades are destroyed


Just my thoughts on a, on first view, wtfoverpower list.
Still have to figure out what to do against them in 8th edition as I believe you can't spread skirmishers ao eaaily anymore.

[Kael Khyran]

On second thought, I forgot that he even had an assassin and tons of masters in there, definately charge his front with treekins or wardancers (exec) and the flank with wardancers (should be able to get in contact with all wardancers (7-9 due to enemy unit size) make that up to 28 attacks S4 hitting on 3+ (12.2 dead shades from flank statistically) while front will eat characters (19 executioner attacks vs characters or treekins str5)



p.s. Annoying to write all this on an iphone lol

[unicorn]

4. Charge the shades with the 2nd unit of dryades and watch them getting exterminated
5. Charge with your WR +wardancers (they won't be able to stand and shoot as they already shot at the dryades this turn)

He is choosing which unit he will stand and shoot against. and as the charge reactions are declared after ALL the charges was declared, he will easily choose which of your units he will exterminate.

They can't win this.

Are you sure? Because... They will win this, easily. Even when he will NOT stand and shoot at all. Just do the math:
8 dryads harge from the front. He maximize against them. Other unit charging from the front will have 1, maximally 2 models in BtB, because he maximize against the 1st one. The flanking unit will then have, something between 5 and 8 models in BtB.
Now, to the math. You charge. You have 6 WRs and 1 dryad to the front, and 8 WDs at his side. He have 8 models to the front, 5 to the flank, and 1 on the corner in BtB. Out of that 8 models, 4 are characters. Assassin is popped, at the flank. And whole unit have ASF and he can chosose hewre each of this character will be placed and so where he will be attacking...
Now, run some numbers:
Dreadlord to the Dryads. 4 attacks, 3,56 hits; 2,96 wounds. No dryad is attacking back.
Assassin to the WDs (say they choose the 4+WS dance, to survive at least SOMETHING): 6 attacks aprox, 5,33 hits; 3,56 wounds, 1,77 WDs dead.
BSB against the WRs. 3 attacks, 3,19 hist, 2,65 wounds, 1,77 WRs dead.
GW master against WRs. 3 attacks, 3,19 hits, 2,65 wounds, 1,77 WRs dead.
Whip master against WRs. 4 attacks, 3,56 hits; 2,96 wounds, 2,47 WRs dead.
4 Shades against WRs. 4 attacks, 3 hits. 2,5 wounds, 1,67 WRs dead. WRs exterminated.
5 shades incl. champion against the WDs. 6 attacks, 4,5 hits, 3,75 wounds, 1,86 WDs dead.
Now it is your turn to attack. Finally. Out of all your models in BtB, only some WDs survived. Out of 8 of them, 3,73 is dead. Say you where lucky... 3. So, 5 WDs incl champion attacking back. 11 attacks, 7,33 hits, 4,88 wounds. No save. Say you where lucky again - 5 dead Shades.
Now the CR time.
DE have... 3 WDs, 6 WRs, 3 Dryads, outnumber, BSB. 14.
WE have... flank, 5 dead shades. 6.
14:6
Now... You where right. They can win this. But your units are the one e are talking about You sacrificed aprox. 550 pts of your units to kill... 5 shades

[unicorn]

definately charge his front with treekins

Treekins will suffer under all that S6 and S5 magical attacks a lot.

or wardancers (exec) and the flank with wardancers (should be able to get in contact with all wardancers (7-9 due to enemy unit size)

3 Treekins = 8 models in BtB. The unit have 45 models inside. That means 8 WDs from the flank exactly.

make that up to 28 attacks S4 hitting on 3+ (12.2 dead shades from flank statistically)

You choose the +1A dance? Enjoy the look on your WDs dying under all that ASFing atacks they are eating right now

[unicorn]

Just for that fun - new math. 3 treekins from the front, 8 WDs from the side. As you propose, the WDs uses the +1A dance.
Dreadlord x Tk = 3,56 hits, 2,37 wounds with no save.
BSB x Tk = 2,67 hits, 1,78 wounds, 1,19 unsaved.
Whip master x Tk = 3,56 hits, 1,78 wounds with no save.
GW master x WD = 2,25 hits, 1,88 wounds, 1,56 unsaved.
4 Shades incl champ x Tk - 3,75 hits, 1,86 wounds, 1,04 unsaved.
Assassin x WD = 5,33 hits, 3,56 wounds, 2,96 unsaved.
4 shades x WD = 3 hits, 2,5 wounds, 2,08 unsaved.

So, 6,38 wounds on Tks, 1 is attacking back; and 6,6 wounds on WDs, say 6, so 2 are attacking back.
Tk is doing some 1,25 wounds, WDs some 2,67 wounds. Say 3. And you even do not have the flank
So, 15:4.
If your WDs will choose the 4+WS dance, 3 will die and there will be some 5 of them attacking back back, causing 4,89 wounds and having flank, so the result will be 11:7. Still, pretty bad numbers for you

[Malkrit]

Nowhere in the BRB is stated that you get -1 to hit for multiple shots, I read the whole section : Shooting 3 times and couldn't find it anywhere.
Isn't it a 6th edition rule?

I also find this problem with longrange and warmachines, everyone I know claimes that warmachines do not suffer from multiple shots.
Especially my RPBT lover high elf opponent.

[Unendil]

Nowhere in the BRB is stated that you get -1 to hit for multiple shots, I read the whole section : Shooting 3 times and couldn't find it anywhere.
Isn't it a 6th edition rule?

Read the weapons section please...p55 I think, Multiple shot rule....

[unicorn]

Nowhere in the BRB is stated that you get -1 to hit for multiple shots, I read the whole section : Shooting 3 times and couldn't find it anywhere.
Isn't it a 6th edition rule?

I also find this problem with longrange and warmachines, everyone I know claimes that warmachines do not suffer from multiple shots.
Especially my RPBT lover high elf opponent.

As Uenddil states, there is a rule on page 55. So, as long as any weapon have the rule of "Xx multiple shots", it suffers -1 to hit. Like the DE Xbowss. But if the weapon does not have this rule, it does not suffer from this penalty, now matter how many times it actually fire. Like the HE/DE RBTs.

[Kael Khyran]

You choose the +1A dance? Enjoy the look on your WDs dying under all that ASFing atacks they are eating right now

wait did I miss something? Why would they strike first?

I'd suggest a treeman with annoyance for the front, but the shades would have shot him as I can't hide him behind the dryades

[unicorn]

You choose the +1A dance? Enjoy the look on your WDs dying under all that ASFing atacks they are eating right now

wait did I miss something? Why would they strike first?

Because of the BSB with ASF banner? The unit is well-prepared to take the charge from nearly anything.

I'd suggest a treeman with annoyance for the front, but the shades would have shot him as I can't hide him behind the dryades

They will put 4-5 wounds on him per volley, right.

The best solution against this unit is to feed it with few dryads and kill the rest of his army. As with most of the deathstar units with WE

[Azaireal]

Never really thought about it, but can the skirmishing shade death star stand around a forest, or would they have to group inside it. As far as I can tell, Skirmish suggests they have to be 1" from another model, which does not indicate they have to cluster.

(curious because of Tree Singing)

[unicorn]

NSkirmish suggests they have to be 1" from another model

They have to be MAXIMALLY 1" from another model. Not exactly (and that stands for about 3 weeks from now on )