NEED HELP! Your thoughts please!

[BreasticleeS]

I am currently in the process of a 1500pt build and have run into a snag. I want to run a unit of 10 wild riders with a banner (aech - terror banner), but currently, the loadout I have already created does not allow for the points.

In order to take the additional wild rider with the magical banner, I have to sacrifice a dispel scroll (on a lvl 4 spellweaver general), lamentation of despairs, and hail of doom arrow (on a noble with shield and light armor).

Do you think this sacrifice is worth it, or should I just forget about adding the additional wild rider and magical banner?

The rest of the units are as follows:

Lvl4 Spellweaver, Glamourweave on unicorn with Lore of Life and dispel scroll & lametation of despairs

Noble with light armor, shield, hail of doom arrow

13 Glade Guard, musician, with fire banner (bunker for noble)

10 Glade Guard, musician

12 Dryads (bunker for spellweaver)

9 Wild Riders

1 Treeman (anvil)

[Ravenlord]

The terror banner does squat on your Riders. The warbanner (or perhaps the razorbanner) will help you infinitly more.
So, no. The trade off isn´t worth it. Not even with the warbanner.

And remember that if you run the unicorn in the wild rider unit they loose fast cavalry.

Good luck and hope it helps!

Edit: Just saw that you are going to run the mage-icorn with your dryads, so ignore that last advice.
Wait... Why would you run him with the dryads?

[BreasticleeS]

Well I'm really running her solo, but because she is glamourweave, she can join units of forest spirits. Would she be better off with the riders if I need to roll her into a unit?

[Bogi]

Is it legal to put your mounted spellwiever in with the dryads who are skirmishers?

[BreasticleeS]

Not sure. Is it legal? All I know is that Glamourweave kindred can enter forest spirit units. See....this is why I need help. Lol.

[Doblin James]

Well, IMHO, it's not worth glamorweave kindred to begin with. So just drop the kindred and unicorn and I think you will have the points for another rider and razor banner. As cool as the unicorn is, the glamorweave kindred is expensive and doesnt give you much of anything. It's more points efficient to just stick your Mage in that unit of glade guard.

[Bogi]

Also he may not join them at least not in the last ed and i believe not in this ed either. Unicorn is not bad on a lv2 as it gives an additional wound but a lv2 is not good anyway. There is nothing wrong with a unicorn on a lv4 of beasts. Can give nice range on the 12" savage beasts spells. M10 saves your ass. Just be careful where you place him and do not utilise the unicorns 2S6 attacks. It will probably be the demise of your lv4 if you try to do that. If you dont want to buy him a ward save you get a 5+ against everything not in close combat. You may then spend the points on something like...?... hunters talon and paegent of shrikes? ........maybe firebane gem and annoyance of netlings? hmmm.

[BreasticleeS]

Okay, so if I absolutely want to run the wizard on the unicorn, I should take more of beasts, and he can join the wild riders if needed? Also, I am unsure of what you mean by buying him a ward save?

[Ravenlord]

You are correct, a character on a mount may not join skirmishing units. Don´t be to fast on trashing the glamourweave kindred, against certain armies (undead, ogres etc) that immune to phsycology can be a real lifesaver. Also, as the character is expensive, having him immune to those panic tests can be quite reassuring. A 5+ forest ward is better than no ward.
There are two things that the unicorn brings to the party that MAY make it worth the points.
1. Speed -this is awesome and really, really handy.
2. Magic resistance.

Its fighting capabilities is of course nice and all, but way to weak to handle things on its own, although with certain buffing spells (savage beast, wyssan´s, flesh to stone) it becomes quite scary, as with all units.

I´ve never had a unicorn in a unit -cavalry loose fast cavalry rule and infantry don´t confer a Look out Sir! "save". However, I´ve had a unicorn run behind and/or next to my wild riders. Darting such a combination over the field to were your oponent least want them is very effective. And he gets a Look out Sir! save.

[Doblin James]

The thing about running a solo wizard, especially since its your only wizard, is that it looks juicy. Using lore of beasts as an example, the lamesauce flock of doom could potentially take out your mage in one go. And let's face it, your not gonna be able to stop everything aimed at your mage, not every time. That 5+ ward save doesnt work against magic either. If your mage dies, your opponent basically rules the magic phase from then on, which means they get cool buffs and you don't. Plus, the 250+ points for a lvl 4 mage is nice for victory points too.

[BreasticleeS]

Okay, so I think I have it figured out. I know using a unicorn is kind of strange due to the high points value required to field one and a Glamourweave kindred. But the whole point of this army is to use the Unicorn, cause, well......unicorns are awesome!

Here it goes:

Lvl3 Spellweaver w/ unicorn mount, annoyance of nettling

Noble w/ light armor, great weapon, shield, hail of doom arrow

12 dryads

13 glade guard w/ musician, banner of eternal flame (bunker for noble)

10 glade guard w/ musician

10 wild riders w/ musician, razor standard

1 Treeman


So really what I am having trouble with now is choosing between lore of beasts or life? Please leave suggestions!

[dusk1983]

Looking at that list, I would recomend personally dropping either some Wild riders or the treemen.

Our primary damage dealers are actually our glade guard and dryads, and you just don't have enough of either. The treeman is always one lucky cannonball/arachnarok/hydra/hellpit abomination away from not being there at all.

I have nothing against treemen or large wild rider units but i feel that you have too many high points cost units in the one army. I get that you want a unicorn mage because yes, they are quite neat (hell my PICTURE) . But having 10 wild riders (260 points) and a treeman (285 points) + the unicorn mage (300 points) in the one 1500 pointarmy is a bit "many eggs in one basket". I mean that is 12 models which accounts for nearly three quarters of your army. *twelve*. And none of them are as difficult to kill as their points cost would suggest. At the very least I'd recomend taking two 5 man wild rider units (if you really want 10)

Us wood elf players simply don't win by having expensive units on the table. The way our army book plays (or at least the way I'm told it plays) is with guerilla warfare. Lots of small units operating in tandum to get off multiple charges, and whittle away the scary units our opponents field with fire. This list doesnt appear to have much of that. Also quite unlike some contemporary armies our core choices are good. They are useful and effective, and our game always rests on their shoulders.

All of that said, I see what you've done with your list. You've taken essentially the coolest (fluffwise and models) units (unicorns, giant trees, and the wild riders) and wanting to field them all, you've crammed them in to one small army. The problem is that a list this size should probably have two of those units at the most, and to err on the side of caution I would normally say one at most in a 1500 point list.

That said, as always take with a grain of salt. I'm not as experienced as I'd like and I'm probably a little jaded. Just my opinion.

[BreasticleeS]

Dusk, what would you think if I removed the unicorn and simply had the Mage on foot in the unit of dryads, allowing the lvl4 purchase as well as being able to add several glade guard?

[Tehethan]

However, I´ve had a unicorn run behind and/or next to my wild riders. Darting such a combination over the field to were your oponent least want them is very effective. And he gets a Look out Sir! save.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Monstruous Cavalry (characters mounted on a great eagle, stag or unicorn) only benefits from that roll if the unit is of Monstruous Cavalry as well, so the character won't have Look out Sir! in any of the current units in the book.

[Ravenlord]

However, I´ve had a unicorn run behind and/or next to my wild riders. Darting such a combination over the field to were your oponent least want them is very effective. And he gets a Look out Sir! save.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Monstruous Cavalry (characters mounted on a great eagle, stag or unicorn) only benefits from that roll if the unit is of Monstruous Cavalry as well, so the character won't have Look out Sir! in any of the current units in the book.

You are correct, sorry for the misinformation!

Edit:
I use an old converted mounted Spellweaver/singer as an unicorn, but I haven´t got around to changing the base yet. That´s why... Sorry again.

[dusk1983]

Dusk, what would you think if I removed the unicorn and simply had the Mage on foot in the unit of dryads, allowing the lvl4 purchase as well as being able to add several glade guard?

Unfortunately you cant put a mage on foot in dryads. To join dryads needs to be glamourweave. To be glamourweave they *must* be mounted. (glamourweave kindred p68) but you could put her on to a standard steed.

I like the feel you're going for with this army but i normally wouldnt field a glamourweave weaver (because lets face it, the bonus of glamourweave is more the unicorn than anything else) in less than 25k.

Personally i would probably recomend rather than dropping the unicorn, drop the wild riders altogether, keep the treeman and use the 260 points elsewhere (at least one eagle for warmachine hunting even tho ive never used them effectively ive read enough to know theyre the way to go)

Treeman is good. In a game this size a treeman might give you an advantage. But the wildriders are too costly for what they do.

To try summarise my random thoughts. Keep unicorn as is, drop wild riders (change wizard lore to life seeing as you dont have these guys anymore) take an eagle, more glade guard, more dryads, keep treeman

My opinion as ever is just an opinion

[BreasticleeS]

Thank you all for your help and great suggestions! I upgraded the treeman to an ancient and added a cluster of radiants and annoyance of netlings, and changed the wizards spites to a lamentation of despairs. The rest of the points after removing the wild riders are going to more glade guard.

I am still going to run the original list for fun, but now I have two 1500 pt lists that I like and they will be tested in the fires of battle, this Friday!

[dusk1983]

good luck!

[dusk1983]

well its friday here, don't know where you are. How'd the game go? Were we helpful at all or did we lead you astray?

[BreasticleeS]

We don't start until 3:30 EST, so I'll give a full report this evening!

[BreasticleeS]

So update! The original list that I was going to use for fun has just spanked a 1500 DE crossbow heavy army. Glamourweave was killed but managed to resurrect an entire unit of GG and the WR managed to squeak by with only one killed. The treeman devastated his hero in a challenge, which he issued. Im still trying to figure out why(and he doesn't know I'm posting that either! Lol)

Next up...the army with your suggestions against a 1500 empire and then a 1500 VC. Annnnnd if I can squeak it in, another against. 1500 WoC.

[dusk1983]

Look forward to it!

You said you played your original list first? Because you have a treeman, not an ancient in that list which means a challenge cant be declared.

[BreasticleeS]

Wow. Holy crap, you're right! I am definitely not going to point that out in the aftermath, I have no idea why neither of us caught that. I think it just was declared and we went with it without thinking. Wow, I feel ilke an idiot.

[dusk1983]

I wouldnt be feeling too bad. Essentially it was him at a disadvantage anyway and you said he called the challenge.

I know if i had the option of attacking a monster with my entire unit + a hero as well i certaily wouldnt be crying challenge to limit my chance of killing it to my hero alone.

[BreasticleeS]

Right???

So in a quick overview of the two matches with the list based on everyone's suggestions, loss to VC (she just kept rolling damn spam respawns on her annoying units!). But I did manage to squeak a win vs the WoC. Managed to hit with the lamentation of despairs on his Champion of Nurgle. It was OH SO SWEET!